East Seneca Forefit

BIG AL · No Chips Hazard

RE: East Seneca Forefit

pjm4080 · Woodlawn

I think our president is in a tough spot and in a no win situation here. But for the past president to post and blast him is a joke. Kitty has done more for this league in the 3 years he has been president than the past president ever has. I do not think that anyone has forgot the mess that our past president did to this league.

BIG AL · No Chips Hazard

I dont know who you are,but i was not "blasting" the president. This is a softball league not rocket science. If you call losing 6 plus teams, adding a toilet bowl and continueing with these umps doing more, i'd like to see what you could do.How was super saturday anyway? and the All-star game with the best players in the league,

Wegotscrewed · Newbie

Wow how these rules are made to be followed only when its helps others out. We believed this was a firefighters league but hence most of these teams lack active firefighters but thats o.k. but championship softball games are set in stone. We feel bad if the players that couldn't make the championship game on sunday for woodlawn were actually firefighters but doubt it since nooone could pull there trucks out of the hall after the ball game since nooone is active. Hold your heads high cuz the only reason Woodlawn beat East Seneca during the season is that Earnie had a employee play umpire hence the home field advantage.

Aaron Antes · Woodlawn

Al,

You have to look at things more objectively here. The league has lost teams because the following fire companies couldn't put a team on the field anymore (Lake View, Newton Abbott, Cattaraugus, Angola, Hamburg, Big Tree..next year). The only team that has or says they were leaving because they aren't happy (right or wrong) is East Seneca. That's not Kitty's fault. He was left in a bad spot.

As far as the All-Star Game, when I was president I stopped that practice not Kitty, because teams weren't sending their best players and the games were a joke. Super Saturday, if the president can get everyone there and have good match-ups (was and is) a great idea.

The silver play-offs were Kitty's idea and although we don't see a purpose in those games. The bottom teams do and it matters to them. That's how you keep the Lake Erie Beaches and Unions in the league. You were just complaining about how teams were dropping out.

As for the umps, remeber WNY said they won't do our league anymore and when I left the President position you started using Southtown's and Cattauragus umpires.

I guess I'll I can say if your not happy, elections are coming run against him. It's exactly the reason why I gave up as president. You can never make everyone happy. Remember he is volunteering his time and doesn't even play in the league anymore. I'm sure he didn't appreciate the position he was put in this year. He's from Winchester and he had to tell East Seneca that they will have to forfiet with the votes from his board. He doesn't make that decision on his own.

Aaron

leadstone · Lake Shore

I beleive that Kitty has been doing a great job at President. Seems to be able to make non biased hard decisions. If al was to get back in as president i know of one more team that would drop out of the league

BIG AL · No Chips Hazard

Aaron, point well taken. This league has been around along time and would hate to see it fold. We as presidents did good with what we had to work with,same for kitty. When i did all-star games they were great,sucks when teams dont send their best your rite about that. Maybe two divisions split by competiveness or something its not as fun as it used to be. Enough, good luck on saturday--who ever you play!

tater38 · Brant

a simple motion from East Seneca, 6 months ago could have avoided all of this...East Seneca, should have asked for a plan to be put in place if they made it, they never did...or if we could have just won the damn game, this would have been avoided

Funk · Newbie

Message from the East Seneca Baseball Team. This leeter will also be sent to the league and all league representatives. Kitty, please make sure this one gets in your minutes at the meeting:

Dear League members,

For over 30 years the East Seneca Fire Company has been a part of the ECVFSA organization. It is an organization that was built on friendship, comradery, and sportsmanship. As everyone is aware, we advanced to the Championship game by defeating Brant on Tuesday night. Unfortunately we are unable, as a team, to play on Saturday. A member of the team is getting married that day, a wedding in which 6 members of the team are in (standing up, readings, etc.), and all members will be attending. This is an event that has been planned for 2 years.

Leading up to Tuesdays game, there have been several instances that the team has identified to various individuals in the league that we would be unable to play the championship game on that date. It was identified at league meetings on more than one occasion, although not apparently identified in meeting minutes. Of course poor taking of minutes, should not deter from the fact that this issue was brought to the leagues attention. No action was taken at the time to request a change in date because there are many teams in the league and we did not feel that we should make an issue of the date without knowing if we would even be involved in the game. We were also verbally told that the league could address it if it became an issue. Of course that is not in any minutes either. No other action was taken to change the date because this team felt that those verbal comments, as well as, the values that the organization was built on would address the issue if it came to that. As East Seneca progressed through the playoffs, we continued to state that we could not play in the Championship game on the date it was scheduled. Again all the teams in the playoffs, including Woodlawn, assured us that they would be willing to change the date. Upon defeating Brant Tuesday evening, Woodlawn was approached about changing the game. We were told that no way would they change the game and then proceeded make further comments. Because there was alcohol influence involved, we chose to walk away and hopefully discuss it at a later time.

Over the past few days, there have been several attempts between East Seneca and Woodlawn to agree to a mutual time to have the game. East Seneca was only offered various times to play the game on Saturday. Those times included 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM. The wedding on Saturday is at Noon and the reception later that day. We feel, as a team, that it is unreasonable to force our guys to run around like fools to play a baseball game and attend or be in a wedding on that day. We ask any one of you to determine if you would be willing to make such a sacrifice on such an important day in a friends or familys life. The team made it clear to Woodlawn that there is no possible way we could play on Saturday on 4 different occasions and everytime we were only offered a Saturday solution. We also told them we would play any other day that they could choose. East Seneca was told that they could not have their full team any other day. East Seneca suggested playing on Sunday, but they would be missing one player we were told. Of course we would be missing 2 of our best players, not to mention the condition our players would be in from a festive event the night before.

This team wants the league to know that if the tables were turned that we would never consider winning a league Championship by forfeit and that East Seneca would have gone out of their way to accommodate such a situation as we feel many other teams would also. It is our belief that this is a very sad day for this league. The spirit that this league was built on, sportsmanship and friendship, no longer exists. We also feel that the league has let us down. Instead of working with the 2 teams to come to some agreement, the president chose the do nothing approach and hope they work it out. Not only does this show poor officer representation within the league, but it does not say much for the image they portray of this league outside of the organization.

Here are answers to some of the questions we have faced since this has happened.
Why didnt you push to have the game scheduled for a different date at the league meeting when the date was set? The league was made aware of the issue we had. We did not push it at that point because, we are 1 team of many. There was no guarantee that we would make it that far. We, therefore, did not want to make an issue out of it. If we did and forced the change and then did not make it this far, the same people criticizing us now would be criticizing us for making the league change the date.
Why did you continue to play through the playoffs knowing you could not make the scheduled date? We continued to play for several reasons. The most important being that we were reassured throughout the process beginning from when the date of the game was set that something would be worked out if it came to that. All through the playoffs, we were also assured by all remaining teams that they would be willing to reschedule the game to accommodate our dilemma. Woodlawn, during the playoffs, told us they would be willing to change the game to Sunday at 10:00 AM. Of course that changed when push came to shove.

Here are our questions and comments for this league:
What, as a team, would any of you had done, given all the same facts and verbal reassurances, if the situation existed for you?
So Woodlawn is basically saying that there is no day from Sunday until, say, when the first snowflake falls, that they can field a full team? Interesting
If it were to rain on Saturday, what would have been the rain date for the game?
We are also unable to field a complete team for any other date in the next 2 weeks also, due to work commitments, honeymoons and vacations. We are willing to accept that and still offered to play on any date that Woodlawn wanted except Saturday.
This wedding involves the entire East Seneca ball team, whether standing up in it or attending it. It is completely unreasonable for this league to expect this team to run between West Seneca, Brant and Amherst all day and still be a part of the wedding. Would Woodlawn be willing do that if it was their family?

In closing we can say that this league and Woodlawn has truly let us down and this team is very disappointed because of it. Friendships, we thought existed dont. The spirit of sportsmanship does not exist and East Seneca will never look at this league the same way again. Our team has stuck together through this and all agree on our stance, for the sake of Jeff and Karen and not ruining their wedding day and for our team and the East Seneca family that we are all a part of. In our eyes, we are the winners, not in a baseball game but in the game of life. We all agree that it is more important than a baseball game. We also want to thank everyone that has called to support us and offer their good intentions. We dont know what the future holds for the East Seneca baseball team, but we hope that the friendships we have built over the years remains.

Regards,

East Seneca Softball Team

medic58 · Ex-East Seneca

Well said Rusty

pinky104 · Newbie

kitty is the president right? then as the president why the hell doesn't he grow some balls and take actions as being the president. yeah he doesn't want to because he knows that elections are coming up and doesn't want to lose his spot being the president.

why doesn't woodlawn grow some balls and play us on sunday. they paid the umpire a little extra during the season game( and woodlawn you know you did) just so they can beat us. And now it comes down to the championship game and they will do anything to avoid us. biggrin

tater38 · Brant

what is the reason this game is not rescheduled anytime in the future.....there has to be one day between now and Oct 1st that this game can be played

BIG AL · No Chips Hazard

rusty, having some time to think this over, and based on your comments, YOU ARE RITE ON. jEFF AND kAREN should have their day,congrats too them and East Seneca!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ziggy · Newbie

It's a tough situation to make any kind of decision, just like a close call on a strikeout or play at the plate, right or wrong the President and board would be blasted by someone/team for their call.
Hold it on Labor Day weekend, it's far enough in advance so everyone can get off work/switch/call in and arrange thier schedule accordingly.

risteenhuis · Big Tree

i dont think i ever took woodlawns side on this because i think MOST, not all, of them are way to ****y for their own good and that letter just made me not like them even more...to refuse to reschedule a game after they said they would is just ridiculous...good job woodlawn, congrats on your championship, hope your heads dont get to much bigger from it

KITTY · Commish

This reply is for you pinky 104. This league you seem to forget let you play before you were 18. The league as a whole let you continue to play and then addressed the age requirement. If you think this was done so I could be elected again THINK. Who would ever want to be in this position!!! I have friendships on both teams that have grown for over 35 years (twice as long as you have been in existence). The last thing I would want to do is hurt those relatioships. The question of my having balls I will gladly discuss with you anytime. I ran for President of the league because I love the game and what it stands for. Next month are the elections and I hope 10 people run for office because those 10 will care. Will you run Pinky? Do you have the BALLS or will you let someone else take the hit then criticize them.

Catch16 · Brant

KITTY wrote:

This reply is for you pinky 104. This league you seem to forget let you play before you were 18. The league as a whole let you continue to play and then addressed the age requirement. If you think this was done so I could be elected again THINK. Who would ever want to be in this position!!! I have friendships on both teams that have grown for over 35 years (twice as long as you have been in existence). The last thing I would want to do is hurt those relatioships. The question of my having balls I will gladly discuss with you anytime. I ran for President of the league because I love the game and what it stands for. Next month are the elections and I hope 10 people run for office because those 10 will care. Will you run Pinky? Do you have the BALLS or will you let someone else take the hit then criticize them.

Well said Pres. Pinky ? Do YOU have the balls to come back with an intelligent response? Im betting no.

J16A

pjm4080 · Woodlawn

risteenhuis wrote:

i dont think i ever took woodlawns side on this because i think MOST, not all, of them are way to ****y for their own good and that letter just made me not like them even more...to refuse to reschedule a game after they said they would is just ridiculous...good job woodlawn, congrats on your championship, hope your heads dont get to much bigger from it

i would like to have ES tell us who told them we would play Sunday at 10am. it was discussed and if we could we would but to say that we had an agreement is a lie. after checking with our guys we would be missing at least 2 guys and that is why we would not change to sunday. you really should know that facts before you open your trap and look like a bigger a**

Date: Aug 18, 2007

wow al, its like a tennis match reading your posts...back an forth.....hey fact of the matter is...this whole thing sucks!!!!....yeah right guys...were affraid to play you for the trophy...come on...as much as most dont like us in the league, cause were one of the top contenders each season...were die hard ballplayers....lets not forget why we are in this whole mess.....and why everyone is bashing us an our president....come on now....on a serious not... who in there right mind schedules there wedding during ball season, let alone playoffs, esp. if your a top notch team,like E.S... and past performances show its in your favor to not only make it to the championship game, but win it!....i'll tell you right now if i schedule a function during playoffs, my boys will show up.....AFTER THE GAME!...and its not out of disrespect....we all( the league) work so hard during the season to get people to cover for us at work...maybe missing family functions..etc..that its important to get to the show, an play it , w/ no other outside obligations...but i personally, would never put my team in such a position, that would make them have to choose....so many weekends to choose from, and it had to be in aug.....hey everyone...woodlawn didnt pick jeffs wedding day.....an you can all keep posting crap about woodlawn...but go to the sourse....we have always had a great relationship w/ e.s....and most all teams for that....and its too bad they're gona disrespest us when they are the cause of this whole thing...........all we did was work hard an sacrifice alot of family time to get here.........hey i think jeffs a great guy....i dont have anything bad to say about him or any other e.s boy....i just dont understand why a wedding was scheduled during playoffs...im sorry, but if your a fireman, playing ball in this league.....yes...life revolves around BALL....all you guys who struggle each week to get to the game.....you no what i mean....and theres no way we would reschedule noing all our starters cant make it another day...we were ready this morning to play, as we are ready now

NCSoftball11 · North Collins

Wegotscrewed wrote:

Wow how these rules are made to be followed only when its helps others out. We believed this was a firefighters league but hence most of these teams lack active firefighters but thats o.k. but championship softball games are set in stone. We feel bad if the players that couldn't make the championship game on sunday for woodlawn were actually firefighters but doubt it since nooone could pull there trucks out of the hall after the ball game since nooone is active. Hold your heads high cuz the only reason Woodlawn beat East Seneca during the season is that Earnie had a employee play umpire hence the home field advantage.

Hey watch what you're saying about teams and active players. On our team, every single starter is an active fireman that responds to calls on a daily basis, including some cheifs and captains. We do things the right way here, I know that. I can say the same for Brant too, because I've seen those guys on mutual aid call before a few times.

risteenhuis · Big Tree

pjm4080 wrote:

risteenhuis wrote:

i dont think i ever took woodlawns side on this because i think MOST, not all, of them are way to ****y for their own good and that letter just made me not like them even more...to refuse to reschedule a game after they said they would is just ridiculous...good job woodlawn, congrats on your championship, hope your heads dont get to much bigger from it

i would like to have ES tell us who told them we would play Sunday at 10am. it was discussed and if we could we would but to say that we had an agreement is a lie. after checking with our guys we would be missing at least 2 guys and that is why we would not change to sunday. you really should know that facts before you open your trap and look like a bigger a**

hey guy i just said rescheduled, not a day and time....open your eyes and read

risteenhuis · Big Tree

NCSoftball11 wrote:

Wegotscrewed wrote:

Wow how these rules are made to be followed only when its helps others out. We believed this was a firefighters league but hence most of these teams lack active firefighters but thats o.k. but championship softball games are set in stone. We feel bad if the players that couldn't make the championship game on sunday for woodlawn were actually firefighters but doubt it since nooone could pull there trucks out of the hall after the ball game since nooone is active. Hold your heads high cuz the only reason Woodlawn beat East Seneca during the season is that Earnie had a employee play umpire hence the home field advantage.

Hey watch what you're saying about teams and active players. On our team, every single starter is an active fireman that responds to calls on a daily basis, including some cheifs and captains. We do things the right way here, I know that. I can say the same for Brant too, because I've seen those guys on mutual aid call before a few times.

he was refering to woodlawn...granted they dont get a lot of calls for the season but you will rarely see any of their starters on calls...probably because most dont live in district(from what ive been told)

Ziggy · Newbie

Jebus Christmas..just play on flippen labor day weekend
I mean seriously, how can you predict that you'll make it to the championship game? I mean who would have thought (besides me because I like them) that the Brewers would be leading the NL central right now? Would we be bitching if a team, hell lets say my team Highland, said "oh I can't play on such and such date for the championship because we have this event going on...you'd laugh (which a ton of teams did this year), and tell us to flip off.
Honestly, think to yourselves when was the last time you sat down and correctly picked the
correct two teams to play in the super bowl or world series or nba championship or that stupid sport they play on ice. It's a shot in the dark. I mean if any team has a problem with the championship game date, why can't any team have a problem with the regular season schedule (I mean after all wins and losses determine seeds and placements) when it comes to "events".
I'm not knocking Woodlawn or going against them for working to try and get the game in, I mean we have an Executive board for a reason and they lay down the law (thank God they don't have commish's screwing them over), and if they set a date that is for a championship game we should try and abide to our fullest extent, after all that is their job to set the schedule.

So playng a devil's advocate I still say schedule it (the league not the teams) for a random date around Labor Day and just tell the two teams. I bet an equal amount from both teams will make the game or miss the game....hell the advance date may help read adjust schedules to make it.

Thats just my opinion. You can like it, hate it, or just call me a fat pasty whte no talent jackass, but well, "thats just like your opinion man"(The Big Labowski)

Remember the brothers who died and got hurt tonight in the Deutche bank tower in Manhatten...FTM,PTB,EGH,DTRT

Cfunker · Newbie

Ziggy wrote:

So playng a devil's advocate I still say schedule it (the league not the teams) for a random date around Labor Day and just tell the two teams. I bet an equal amount from both teams will make the game or miss the game....hell the advance date may help read adjust schedules to make it.

Thats just my opinion. You can like it, hate it, or just call me a fat pasty whte no talent jackass, but well, "thats just like your opinion man"(The Big Labowski)

Well put !!!!! Being in this situation, i feel that east seneca did the right thing for karen and jeff, because its there day after-all, (even tho the date of the game could have been changed) and no-one should interupt a wedding to play ball in the first place. But in the long run i believe that yes the league should reschedule the game, because we then would find out who the real champions are and this bullsh*t would come to an end. labor day week or maybe before sometime sounds pretty damn good and i'm sure both teams would be able to work out a date. (even if the president had to set the date and time and place)

MakinBacon · Member

I would just like to congratulate Jeff and Karen. I know this situation must have them in a tough place. Also, congratulations to East Seneca and Woodlawn on their great seasons. It took a lot of hard work to get to the championship and hopefully this will be resolved so we can find out who really is the best.

kowboy · Woodlawn

anytime you want,come on over an meet w/ john kolb, an bob kryzak, our chiefs... and they will show you everyone on that team has met all standards and requirements to play ball.....remember...this is voulenteer...we answer when we can, an if our percentages arnt met, at the end of the year, guys will be suspended...ask larry tyger.....cant we all just get along...cant help it woodlawns drawn alot of talented players over the years.....dont hate us cause were good.....

kowboy · Woodlawn

speeking for woodlawn, we have always got along w/ the guys from e.s....and its too bad its come down to this...jeff KNOWS we all like him an the rest of you guys, and we all at woodlawn wish nothing but the best for him and his new bride....but.....lets not forget why we are in this whole situation...woodlawn didnt throw a wrench into the season..we followed the schedule each week, and players showed up to play based on their availability....(i missed 7 games)..fine...you told the league you wernt gona play if you made it....but come on...your east seneca....how can you say that you didnt no you would make the playoffs and have a chance to go to the show....im sorry, but you guys are a GREAT team...everybody knows your gona be one of the top teams in the playoffs, so for whatever reason jeff an karen scheduled there wedding during the playoffs, really put you all in a difficult situation.....an in turn....drew everybody else in it as well...thers alot of desention going on between teams, and our league reps, because of this and the decesion that was handed down... but remember where it all started from......you have 17 names give or take one, on that trophy from 2005....were sorry YOU chose to have a wedding on that day, but you took a forefit over sending enough guys to at least represent your team, and do there best you could w/ who you had on a scheduled game day.... lets stop passing the blame.....its a shame it ended this way, nobody wants to win this way... an contrary to some may think...were not affraid to play anyone....after the win against reserve...we beat EVERYBODY in the league...so lets not talk silly.... but lets remember something here.....when you play ball in THIS FIREMANS LEAGUE....and your a top seeded team, year after year after year....LIFE REVOLVES AROUND BALL SEASON....PERIOD!....in the future lets all schedule our important occassions during the weekends of our season, or very end of august so we dont put anyone through this situation again.......thanks to all the teams that came out an supported us sat...and all the guys that played in the allstar game against us.....we look forward to next year an really hope that we can all put this behind us, learn by it, and stay healthy enough to come back next year. #7 mark warsaw

kowboy · Woodlawn

Pinky104....stop talking ignorant....its a shame when you lose a ballgame, it couldnt possibly be cause we were better than you on that day, ...had to be a payoff....or have to forefit a championship game, its always somebodyelses fault,,,, its comments like these thats gona cause hatred among the teams in this league....

NCSoftball11 · North Collins

kowboy wrote:

so for whatever reason jeff an karen scheduled there wedding during the playoffs, really put you all in a difficult situation.....an in turn....drew everybody else in it as well...

were sorry YOU chose to have a wedding on that day,

the future lets all schedule our important occassions during the weekends of our season, or very end of august so we dont put anyone through this situation again

I really hope you're kidding with the statements I have quoted above. I'm sorry, but nothing should come before family. Weddings are a HUGE part of family. They should be more important that some modified pitch softball league. And if your brother fireman are in that wedding, thats good, because they're family too, and with you through the thick and thin of things no matter what.

People should'nt have to plan their biggest moment (i'd assume, pending childrens birth) in their life around a softball game, thats just insane. So don't blame the people getting married for that and say they cost their team, thats just stupid, thats the date that was best for them 2 years ago, and they stuck with it.

Stop acting like this should run your life, its just freakin softball. Some things come first and are more important.

-- Edited by NCSoftball11 at 15:27, 2007-08-19

risteenhuis · Big Tree

kowboy wrote:

speeking for woodlawn, we have always got along w/ the guys from e.s....and its too bad its come down to this...jeff KNOWS we all like him an the rest of you guys, and we all at woodlawn wish nothing but the best for him and his new bride....but.....lets not forget why we are in this whole situation...woodlawn didnt throw a wrench into the season..we followed the schedule each week, and players showed up to play based on their availability....(i missed 7 games)..fine...you told the league you wernt gona play if you made it....but come on...your east seneca....how can you say that you didnt no you would make the playoffs and have a chance to go to the show....im sorry, but you guys are a GREAT team...everybody knows your gona be one of the top teams in the playoffs, so for whatever reason jeff an karen scheduled there wedding during the playoffs, really put you all in a difficult situation.....an in turn....drew everybody else in it as well...thers alot of desention going on between teams, and our league reps, because of this and the decesion that was handed down... but remember where it all started from......you have 17 names give or take one, on that trophy from 2005....were sorry YOU chose to have a wedding on that day, but you took a forefit over sending enough guys to at least represent your team, and do there best you could w/ who you had on a scheduled game day.... lets stop passing the blame.....its a shame it ended this way, nobody wants to win this way... an contrary to some may think...were not affraid to play anyone....after the win against reserve...we beat EVERYBODY in the league...so lets not talk silly.... but lets remember something here.....when you play ball in THIS FIREMANS LEAGUE....and your a top seeded team, year after year after year....LIFE REVOLVES AROUND BALL SEASON....PERIOD!....in the future lets all schedule our important occassions during the weekends of our season, or very end of august so we dont put anyone through this situation again.......thanks to all the teams that came out an supported us sat...and all the guys that played in the allstar game against us.....we look forward to next year an really hope that we can all put this behind us, learn by it, and stay healthy enough to come back next year. #7 mark warsaw

if life revolves around softball, you guys live pathetic lives